Quite.

[AnimaStone]

The other day, someone who hadn't ever seen Lost asked me, "So what is Lost about anyway?" I found the question surprisingly difficult to answer. I stumbled through a long, tortuous synopsis of the plot to him at the time, but when I thought back on it, I realized that, after this many seasons, an answer to that question is finally becoming clear.

Lost is about the essential and inevitable clash of the two primary poles of human ideology: rationalism and mysticism. It is about having power: as Lord Acton correctly posited, power is not without its corrupting influences. And finally, Lost is about the power of the human spirit, which ultimately is not conquered by the myriad and often clearly absurd obstacles that life throws in its path.

Jack vs. Locke is perhaps the most illuminating motif on the first of those three. Jack Shepherd, true follower of Immanuel Kant, who believes that the world follows a set system of rules that can be mastered; John Locke, Kierkegaardian man of faith, who believes that every second of life is a mystical process and must be confronted with open arms. For the second, one need look only to the example of Charles Whitmore. For the third, consider the example of Faraday and Charlotte, who, despite some truly trying times, are still managing to find love. Or were. What the hell?

I could talk about the philosophical analogues of Lost for hours--it's very reminiscent of The Dark Knight in that way. But there's no need to unless you want to. Instead, I'll move on to points of the plot.

-This whole time travel thing is a rather clever way to gain artistic license over causality. Also, to open up a door for all the sci-fi fans. Some interesting things involving said causality include: is Locke the leader of the Others because he told Richard that he was? Are Faraday, Charlotte, and Miles "uniquely qualified" for Whitmore's mission because he remembers seeing them in the past?
-Also, I love the direction this show is heading for Jack and the others. They are about to be forced to confront all the demons in their past in quick succession. It might just be enough to make going back to the island attractive...
-Speaking of things I love, Desmond might be my favorite part of the show right now. He's always been an Odysseus character, and now he has a Telemachos to complete the triangle. Now what remains to be seen is whether Desmond will be Homer's Odysseus, who returns to Penelope and stays with her in Ithaka for the rest of his life, or Dante's, who is driven by his curiositas to a fatal, final mistake.
-Is Locke dead or not? Make up your mind, Ben. Or at least tell us.
-Speaking of which: it is unnerving to see Benjamin Linus talk directly to the camera and know that he is telling the truth. Unnerving, I tell you.

Overall: I can't wait for the rest of this season. Lost is finally hitting its payoff phase, and damn, was it worth the wait.

[piñata]

I agree with you about Ben... I'm so used to seeing him lie, when he utters an obvious truth it's difficult to believe it. At this point, if he stated that the sky was blue I'd expect the camera to pan up and show me a green sky.

But it was even more shocking to see a young Charles Widmore as a member of the Others. I wonder where they're going with that.

I always got that the show was about rationalism vs. mysticism -- they had Jack and Locke going at each other from season 1 -- but I like some of the other themes that they're either adding or expanding on now, especially the causality (which I didn't catch myself... thanks for pointing it out).

However, my favorite thing about the show right now is the dialogue. They've turned everyone into a deadpan snarker, adding some much-needed comic relief to a show that can occasionally get extremely heavy. Miles especially seems to be benefiting from this writing style.

As for Faraday and Charlotte... I think that they're trying to use the audience's desire for their romance to succeed to add drama to the "We have to get back to the island NOW" premise of this season. It's turning into a race against time -- perhaps even the space-time continuum itself -- for the Oceanic Six to save Charlotte before it's too late.

[AnimaStone]

As you can see from the timestamp, I wrote that just before this past week's episodes, which nerfed some of my points. I'll try to bring up some interesting stuff each week in review--time and inspiration permitting, of course. And I'd love if you would too--two sets of eyes and brains are always better than one.

-Now it's apparently not just Charlotte that's going to die a horrible death? Yeah. Fine. You're right about why they're doing this--it was pretty clear from the start that the nosebleeds were meant to keep us emotionally connected to the left behinds. Charlotte alone would have been enough, but now that it's potentially all of them (and, based on what Locke tells the O6, it will be all of them), we're hooked. Well played, writing sir.
-Speaking of nosebleeds: when it seemed that Miles and Charlotte were the only two getting them, and Faraday said it was because of "longer exposure," I thought back to the very opening scene of the season, with the Dharma scientist. He had a baby, remember? That baby would be about Miles' age now if it were full grown.
-Charles Whitmore as an other brings up an interesting question: did he move the island? Is he Ben's precursor in that way? That would actually make a lot of sense--for instance, it would clear up why Whitmore never tries to go to the island. Also illuminates some of the hatred between Whitmore and Ben.
-Seeing young Whitmore clears up some of his character, too. He seems to be falling more and more into the Dantean type of the man with talent but not virtue.
-Will Ben have to bring Sun's baby back, too? She was conceived on the island, after all.
-Oh, yeah, and Jin's alive. I'd say I saw that coming if I could do so with any semblance of credibility.

You're right about the dialogue. I think the writers helped themselves out a lot by putting the two most mordantly sarcastic characters in close proximity constantly, along with Juliet, who has her own fair share of sarcasm.

Faraday remains the most interesting character for me. Who's yours right now?

[piñata]

Feb 7, 2009 18:51:06 GMT -5 AnimaStone said:

As you can see from the timestamp, I wrote that just before this past week's episodes, which nerfed some of my points.

As Elfie would say: Indeed.

I'll try to bring up some interesting stuff each week in review--time and inspiration permitting, of course. And I'd love if you would too--two sets of eyes and brains are always better than one.

If I've got anything useful to contribute, of course I will do so.

-Now it's apparently not just Charlotte that's going to die a horrible death? Yeah. Fine. You're right about why they're doing this--it was pretty clear from the start that the nosebleeds were meant to keep us emotionally connected to the left behinds. Charlotte alone would have been enough, but now that it's potentially all of them (and, based on what Locke tells the O6, it will be all of them), we're hooked. Well played, writing sir.

And writing madam. Don't forget about Elizabeth Sarnoff, as I'd say she's most responsible among the writing staff for the resurgence of the show.

-Speaking of nosebleeds: when it seemed that Miles and Charlotte were the only two getting them, and Faraday said it was because of "longer exposure," I thought back to the very opening scene of the season, with the Dharma scientist. He had a baby, remember? That baby would be about Miles' age now if it were full grown.

Nice catch, that escaped my notice.

-Charles Whitmore as an other brings up an interesting question: did he move the island? Is he Ben's precursor in that way? That would actually make a lot of sense--for instance, it would clear up why Whitmore never tries to go to the island. Also illuminates some of the hatred between Whitmore and Ben.

I was thinking he was Ben's precursor in a more linear (leader of the Others) way... I can't tell for sure whether the island's been moved prior to Ben doing it, though I assume not because it would have become unstuck in space-time earlier then.

-Seeing young Whitmore clears up some of his character, too. He seems to be falling more and more into the Dantean type of the man with talent but not virtue.

Even though I've not read a single word of Dante, I'm inclined to agree.

-Will Ben have to bring Sun's baby back, too? She was conceived on the island, after all.

I was thinking he would have to, but it's not been mentioned yet and it's not like Ben to overlook something that important... might be that Aaron's enough.

-Oh, yeah, and Jin's alive. I'd say I saw that coming if I could do so with any semblance of credibility.

And Rousseau wasn't always crazy, apparently... I always figured the island made her that way, but it's nice to have proof.

You're right about the dialogue. I think the writers helped themselves out a lot by putting the two most mordantly sarcastic characters in close proximity constantly, along with Juliet, who has her own fair share of sarcasm.

Yeah, and "Son of a bitch!" is a great catchprase for Sawyer. ;D

Faraday remains the most interesting character for me. Who's yours right now?

Hmm... I'd say it's still Ben, though Faraday's a pretty fascinating dude too so I can see why you'd pick him. And the new, assertive Sun is a lot more interesting this year too.

[AnimaStone]

I'm going to pull a Sawyer and start this one off with a "Son of a bitch!"

Charlotte. What the fuck. I loved Charlotte. Not as much as Faraday did, obviously. But she was an interesting character, and not bad to look at to boot. And to add insult to injury, her death scene--I understand the need to bring out the deconstruction of time, but couldn't you have at least elicited a bit more out of it?

It also turns out the Orchid is actually the source of all the problems this world knows. More on that later. (At the end, fittingly.)

I guess the first real topic to tackle is the Temple and the reappearance of our friend Smokey the Killer Machine-Monster-Thing. I'm not sure it's safe to assume that the primary point of Smokey's existence is to protect the Temple--after all, the person who said it was was, shall we say, a bit mentally compromised--but it should be safe to think that's one of Smokey's functions. This episode only compounded my questions about WHAT THE HELL SMOKEY IS, since my prevailing theory, nanotechnology, takes a major hit when Smokey appears c. 1980.

Also noteworthy: Smokey was referred to as "Cerberus" on the map Kelvin drew in the Hatch. That made the scene where Smokey dragged the dude underground--into the Underworld that Cerberus guards--much cooler. Recall, also, the hieroglyphics on the walls of the Temple--we've seen those two other places. First, in the Hatch, when the button fails to be pushed, the counters flip wildly and come to land on hieroglyphics (in red!) that roughly translate to "The Underworld." The second instance of hieroglyphics is in Ben's house, in the secret room where he goes, in order to (presumably) call in Smokey.

The hieroglyphics are clearly connected to important places on the Island, ones that are connected to the "unique properties" of the Island. Is Smokey a guardian of those places, or is he something more nefarious? Time will tell.

Also, regarding the Temple: remember how Ben told Alex that the Temple was a sanctuary, but only for the Others? I guess we know why it's not a sanctuary for the non-Others now. But has it struck anyone else as weird that the Others aren't unsticking in time like Sawyer and the rest? My conjecture is that the Temple is some sort of (underground?) shelter from the effects of the Orchid. Perhaps it contains its own cluster of exotic matter that grants temporal stability.

Do the hieroglyphics point toward a prior, or maybe just ancient, civilization? It would seem so--but who? The Egyptians? The Others?

I love the Ben storyline. The Oceanic 6 and Desmond are, as I predicted, being forced to face all their demons in quick succession. Good storytelling is going on here.

Now onward to the scene at the bottom of the Orchid. It seems pretty clear that things are going badly here, that something major is messed up, based on the activity of the wheel if nothing else.

-Is Christian Shepard Jacob? We have never seen Jacob. Christian was in the cabin both when Hurley found it and when Locke learned that the Island had to be moved. Christian was at the bottom of the Orchid, where I expected Jacob to be. His name points to a sort of teacherly role. Of course, Christian being Jacob is not without its problematic points: for instance, Christian had a rather expansive life off the Island, which it seems Jacob would not, and he did not seem to have a particular hate of technology, given his profession.
-For that matter, is Christian Shepard even dead? Or to what extent was he ever alive? Did he tell Locke that he couldn't help him because he was testing Locke (or perhaps was bound not to help him by some higher authority) or merely because he is incorporeal?
-Are Sawyer and the rest dying because the O6 left, or because Ben did? One thing that's tricky about time travel--or instantaneous space travel, which, according to Einsteinian theory, is basically the same thing--is that it can create paradoxes very easily. One (in my opinion, flawed) theory is that small things are allowed to be changed in time travel, but not big things. I think that idea is flawed because there seems to be no real distinction between "big things" and "small things", thermophysically speaking--either it happened or it didn't. Regardless, if the creators of Lost are using that theory, which they seem to be based on Desmond's trips of Season 3 and 4, was Ben supposed to do a "big thing" on the Island and couldn't because he left, and now Locke has to correct that?
-How the hell is Ben going to get Sayid back to the Island?

Compelling stuff. Can't wait to see where it goes.

[piñata]

Feb 15, 2009 2:41:20 GMT -5 AnimaStone said:

I'm going to pull a Sawyer and start this one off with a "Son of a bitch!"

Don't mess with a son of a bitch.

Charlotte. What the fuck. I loved Charlotte. Not as much as Faraday did, obviously. But she was an interesting character, and not bad to look at to boot.

You forgot to mention her sexy accent. Just listening to her talk was almost as good as porn.

And to add insult to injury, her death scene--I understand the need to bring out the deconstruction of time, but couldn't you have at least elicited a bit more out of it?

Yeah, we already knew Faraday was on the island back then because of the opening scene of the pilot, though the fact that he was there still has me scratching my head and they could have at least made me stop doing that because my fucking scalp is starting to peel off now and Sithspawn this is a long-ass sentence.

I guess the first real topic to tackle is the Temple and the reappearance of our friend Smokey the Killer Machine-Monster-Thing. I'm not sure it's safe to assume that the primary point of Smokey's existence is to protect the Temple--after all, the person who said it was, shall we say, a bit mentally compromised--but it should be safe to think that's one of Smokey's functions. This episode only compounded my questions about WHAT THE HELL SMOKEY IS, since my prevailing theory, nanotechnology, takes a major hit when Smokey appears c. 1980.

Meh, it's a sci-fi show. They could say Smokey was a nanotechnology prototype or find some other way to hand-wave it in, so don't discard that theory entirely. Also, it just occurred to me that this show has time travel in it... another possibility is that Smokey is nanotechnology from the future.

Also noteworthy: Smokey was referred to as "Cerberus" on the map Kelvin drew in the Hatch. That made the scene where Smokey dragged the dude underground--into the Underworld that Cerberus guards--much cooler.

What I found cool about that scene was what an asshole Smokey's victim was. I was hoping he would lose a leg too.

Recall, also, the hieroglyphics on the walls of the Temple--we've seen those two other places. First, in the Hatch, when the button fails to be pushed, the counters flip wildly and come to land on hieroglyphics (in red!) that roughly translate to "The Underworld." The second instance of hieroglyphics is in Ben's house, in the secret room where he goes, in order to (presumably) call in Smokey.

Do the hieroglyphics point toward a prior, or maybe just ancient, civilization? It would seem so--but who? The Egyptians? The Others?

Yeah, those hieroglyphics definitely have some greater meaning that they've likely just begun to explain. Maybe something to do with the first people to live on the island -- the ones who built the four-toed statue. That could support your ancient civilization theory too.

Also, regarding the Temple: remember how Ben told Alex that the Temple was a sanctuary, but only for the Others? I guess we know why it's not a sanctuary for the non-Others now. But has it struck anyone else as weird that the Others aren't unsticking in time like Sawyer and the rest? My conjecture is that the Temple is some sort of (underground?) shelter from the effects of the Orchid. Perhaps it contains its own cluster of exotic matter that grants temporal stability.

That's actually a likely possibility, I think. Either that or the island just likes the Others better and they really are unstuck in time but not suffering like the visitors are... remember, Locke's nose isn't bleeding (yet), and the island has already granted him miraculous healing powers (what happened to that leg wound, anyway?).

I love the Ben storyline. The Oceanic 6 and Desmond are, as I predicted, being forced to face all their demons in quick succession. Good storytelling is going on here.

Agreed. That's the most interesting aspect of the show so far this season, and not just because it's easier to follow than the time-travel stuff on the island.

Now onward to the scene at the bottom of the Orchid. It seems pretty clear that things are going badly here, that something major is messed up, based on the activity of the wheel if nothing else.

Yeah, something's seriously hinky there.

-Is Christian Shepard Jacob? We have never seen Jacob. Christian was in the cabin both when Hurley found it and when Locke learned that the Island had to be moved. Christian was at the bottom of the Orchid, where I expected Jacob to be. His name points to a sort of teacherly role. Of course, Christian being Jacob is not without its problematic points: for instance, Christian had a rather expansive life off the Island, which it seems Jacob would not, and he did not seem to have a particular hate of technology, given his profession.

I think that Smokey (which we've known to imitate people's appearances and voices before) is both Christian and Jacob. Though I really have nothing except wild speculation to base that theory on.

-For that matter, is Christian Shepard even dead? Or to what extent was he ever alive? Did he tell Locke that he couldn't help him because he was testing Locke (or perhaps was bound not to help him by some higher authority) or merely because he is incorporeal?

Or, if he's Smokey, because he can't touch Locke without injuring or killing him?

-Are Sawyer and the rest dying because the O6 left, or because Ben did? One thing that's tricky about time travel--or instantaneous space travel, which, according to Einsteinian theory, is basically the same thing--is that it can create paradoxes very easily. One (in my opinion, flawed) theory is that small things are allowed to be changed in time travel, but not big things. I think that idea is flawed because there seems to be no real distinction between "big things" and "small things", thermophysically speaking--either it happened or it didn't. Regardless, if the creators of Lost are using that theory, which they seem to be based on Desmond's trips of Season 3 and 4, was Ben supposed to do a "big thing" on the Island and couldn't because he left, and now Locke has to correct that?

My brain hurts now. You make me think harder than the show does.

-How the hell is Ben going to get Sayid back to the Island?

How's he gonna get Hurley back to the island? He's gonna have to break him out of jail!

[AnimaStone]

Feb 16, 2009 18:08:10 GMT -5 piñata said:

You forgot to mention her sexy accent. Just listening to her talk was almost as good as porn.

Mm, yes. They don't make accents like that this side of the pond.

Yeah, we already knew Faraday was on the island back then because of the opening scene of the pilot, though the fact that he was there still has me scratching my head and they could have at least made me stop doing that because my fucking scalp is starting to peel off now and Sithspawn this is a long-ass sentence.

I LMAO when I got to the scalp peeling off. Well played. Presumably we'll know soon though?

Meh, it's a sci-fi show. They could say Smokey was a nanotechnology prototype or find some other way to hand-wave it in, so don't discard that theory entirely. Also, it just occurred to me that this show has time travel in it... another possibility is that Smokey is nanotechnology from the future.

Agreed. Few theories can really be discounted these days, it seems. And while the plausibility half of me thinks Smokey is some sort of (possibly future) nanotechnology (or perhaps a future incarnation of the Others?), the "oh-my-god-THAT-IS-SO-FREAKING-AWESOME" half of me wants Smokey to be a completely inexplicable smoke monster. Who doesn't like those? Aside from foreigners, apparently.

Yeah, those hieroglyphics definitely have some greater meaning that they've likely just begun to explain. Maybe something to do with the first people to live on the island -- the ones who built the four-toed statue. That could support your ancient civilization theory too.

I'd forgotten about those statues. Good catch. They are probably related.

That's actually a likely possibility, I think. Either that or the island just likes the Others better and they really are unstuck in time but not suffering like the visitors are... remember, Locke's nose isn't bleeding (yet), and the island has already granted him miraculous healing powers (what happened to that leg wound, anyway?).

I'm still not entirely convinced Locke is inherently special, though the Orchid scene undercuts that belief. I'm just so amused by the possibility that Locke's status among the Others is entirely self-constructed in an epic act of retcon--remember, he failed the Dalai Lama test that Richard gave him, and Richard only knew about him because Locke told Richard himself; and it would make sense that the "false" leader of the Others is the one forced to leave via moving the Island--that I sort of want that idea to pan out. It would seem too strong an anti-mysticism movement, though, in a show that has managed to sustain its mysticism admirably.

I think that Smokey (which we've known to imitate people's appearances and voices before) is both Christian and Jacob. Though I really have nothing except wild speculation to base that theory on.

Hey, wild speculation is our only real renewable resource. That's an interesting take--one I hadn't heard before.

My brain hurts now. You make me think harder than the show does.

Just my job. You should see some of the stuff my dad finds online--it's twice as complicated and ten times as convoluted as what I just said.
Think about it, though. Desmond told Charlie that the universe always "self-corrects". In a sense, Desmond could change the small things: Charlie didn't die today, or the next day, or the next day. But he couldn't change the big thing--Charlie was going to die, no matter what, eventually. Same with his sojourn into the past: he was allowed to take different actions, such as telling his physicist friend about his problem, but he wasn't allowed to change anything major--he wasn't allowed to buy the ring.
Speaking of that scene--it's quite disturbing to realize that the woman who keeps him from buying the ring is, in fact, Faraday's mother. Recall also that she showed up in a picture on the desk of the abbot of Desmond's abbey. She's beginning to look, more and more, like an omniscient character, according to the definition of omniscience (which I do not particularly like but that serves my purposes) that goes, "being in more than one place at the same time."
All this to say: it does seem like the show is using the big thing-little thing argument when it comes to resolving paradoxes. Which makes us wonder why Desmond, according to Faraday, isn't "affected by the rules."

How's he gonna get Hurley back to the island? He's gonna have to break him out of jail!

I'm assuming Ben's lawyer is correct in saying Hurley won't ever go to jail. Based on prior events, though, that's probably a dangerous assumption.

[piñata]

Feb 16, 2009 19:02:51 GMT -5 AnimaStone said:

I LMAO when I got to the scalp peeling off. Well played. Presumably we'll know soon though?

Yeah, I think we will know soon, since they've stated they only have one more season. I need to get cracking on this fantasy series I'm writing... the first book references Lost in a humorous way, and I don't want the show to be off the air before the book is published.

Agreed. Few theories can really be discounted these days, it seems. And while the plausibility half of me thinks Smokey is some sort of (possibly future) nanotechnology (or perhaps a future incarnation of the Others?), the "oh-my-god-THAT-IS-SO-FREAKING-AWESOME" half of me wants Smokey to be a completely inexplicable smoke monster. Who doesn't like those? Aside from foreigners, apparently.

Actually, at first I was rather disappointed it wasn't a more tangible monster (say, for example, a dinosaur). That would have been more cliched, but for some reason the first time I saw that puff of black smoke I just felt... let down. I've come around since then, though.

I'd forgotten about those statues. Good catch. They are probably related.

Wonder if Richard helped build them? They need to tell us how old he is.

I'm still not entirely convinced Locke is inherently special, though the Orchid scene undercuts that belief. I'm just so amused by the possibility that Locke's status among the Others is entirely self-constructed in an epic act of retcon--remember, he failed the Dalai Lama test that Richard gave him, and Richard only knew about him because Locke told Richard himself; and it would make sense that the "false" leader of the Others is the one forced to leave via moving the Island--that I sort of want that idea to pan out. It would seem too strong an anti-mysticism movement, though, in a show that has managed to sustain its mysticism admirably.

Yeah, but still... Locke did kind of screw over the other crash survivors in earlier seasons, and I still want him to be punished for it. Finding out that destiny really has no plan for him and he's just a peon would be a fate suitably worse than death, and I don't think I'll be able to stop myself from laughing during that scene.

Hey, wild speculation is our only real renewable resource. That's an interesting take--one I hadn't heard before.

I still owe you several takes you haven't heard before for all the new stuff you're throwing my way... you really are good at catching details I've missed.

Think about it, though. Desmond told Charlie that the universe always "self-corrects".

Wouldn't the island eventually stop time-shifting if that were true, though? Or was "always" just a slip on Desmond's part, a lack of realization that there are some things the universe can't correct for itself?

Speaking of that scene--it's quite disturbing to realize that the woman who keeps him from buying the ring is, in fact, Faraday's mother. Recall also that she showed up in a picture on the desk of the abbot of Desmond's abbey. She's beginning to look, more and more, like an omniscient character, according to the definition of omniscience (which I do not particularly like but that serves my purposes) that goes, "being in more than one place at the same time."

Yeah, it's weird how they connect the different characters... Desmond met Faraday's mother, Charlie and Libby previously, Charlotte met Faraday when she was a little girl, Sawyer shared a drink with Jack's dad and didn't even realize it... everything seems to fit together really precisely.

All this to say: it does seem like the show is using the big thing-little thing argument when it comes to resolving paradoxes. Which makes us wonder why Desmond, according to Faraday, isn't "affected by the rules."

I think what Faraday meant was that being unstuck in time last season gave Desmond certain capabilities that have yet to be explored, although I'm not for sure on that and he was talking to a younger, pre-unsticking Desmond when he said it.

I'm assuming Ben's lawyer is correct in saying Hurley won't ever go to jail. Based on prior events, though, that's probably a dangerous assumption.

Every assumption has the potential to be dangerous. Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups.

And if you know what movie that's from, you get points.

[AnimaStone]

Initial reaction time.

1) The writers seem to have forgotten how to create a bad show, and that makes me happy.

2) It's reassuring, in a way, to see Ben back to the heartless sociopathic son of a bitch we're used to seeing. "Who cares?" We care about that gem of a line.

3) Something to consider: the situation on the plane was supposed to parallel, as best as possible, the situation on Oceanic 815. This means the door is wide open for Kate to be pregnant.

4) Who, exactly, is on the Island now? Did the whole plane go, even though there didn't seem to be a crash? Was it only people who had already been to the Island? Actually, based on the preview for next week, we can probably discount that theory. But still, was it the whole plane, or just those who were (arbitrarily) supposed to go to the Island?

5) Are Jack et al. now hopping with Jin et al., or are they fixed in Dharma times while Jin et al. hop? Actually, for that matter, have the flashes stopped now that Locke moved the Island? Or, alternatively, did they stop when Jack et al. arrived? This will, I think, quickly become apparent next week, but it's fun to discuss now. My vote is that Locke did fix the flashes when he jumped, but Jack had to return for some other reason (perhaps to save Jin et al. from the "Purge"?).

6) Back to Ben for a second. He sure as hell better not be bloody because he killed Penelope. If they kill off the Desmond storyline, I'll be mega-pissed.

7) Now Hurley. This is sheer speculation, but doesn't it seem likely that one of his dead friends (Libby or Charlie seem the most likely candidates) is responsible for him being on the plane?

8) A few cool parallels I noticed.
-In the first post, I alluded to Locke being a "Kierkegaardian man of faith." Jack, who is now being forced to take much the same role, albeit very reluctantly, was told by Eloise to take a "leap of faith" into the absurdity of the situation--a phrase that was invented by none other than Kierkegaard.
-Ben was reading James Joyce's Ulysses on the plane. Due to the obvious parallels between Desmond and Odysseus, that occurrence makes me believe more strongly that Ben was trying to kill Penelope when he called Jack. Also, Ulysses deals with fractured timelines and constantly shifting vantage points--kind of like Lost this season so far, no?
-Yet another C.S. Lewis reference is found in the name of the pendulum, the Lamppost, which is the landmark that points from the wardrobe to the rest of Narnia--or, seen from the other direction as it is at the end of The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe, the way from Narnia back to the "real world." Time will tell which role the Lamppost serves in Lost: whether the Island becomes the "real world" or not.

9) Something my dad and I discussed after the show, which is not strictly related to this episode but is still interesting. What role, exactly, did the Hatch play? Recall that, at the end of season 2, after the Hatch is destroyed by the failsafe detonation, the Island becomes chartable again. Recall also Eloise's rather Heisenbergian words about finding the Island: one cannot know where it is, but rather where it is probably going to be. Recall also the relative ease with which Dharma brought people to and from the Island. A possible theory, then, about the Hatch: whatever "electromagnetic anomaly", as Dr. Marvin Candle puts it, is located next to the Hatch served the purpose, for Dharma, of anchoring the Island in one specific point of space/time, rather than letting it move. No one could find it as long as the button was pushed, since they didn't know where it was, and they couldn't find out where it was. Once the Hatch is destroyed, the Island starts moving again, and people can find it with the equations again, since it is now going to be somewhere. The "Incident" alluded to by Dr. Candle might have been an attempt to permanently anchor the Island, an attempt that obviously failed.

10) Speaking of the Incident: I think Faraday, Jin, Sawyer, and now Locke (?) are going to have a rather integral role in the construction of at least some of the stations (e.g. the Hatch & the Orchid), since they know exactly how they are supposed to be. They will not appear in any of the instructional videos for obvious paradox avoidance reasons. It's funny--they're going to take actions in the past in order to make their future selves go to the past to take those actions.

...I think I just blew my own mind.

Wow, that was a lot more coherent than I thought it would be. I'll see if I have anything else to say later.

[piñata]

Feb 18, 2009 23:01:00 GMT -5 AnimaStone said:

2) It's reassuring, in a way, to see Ben back to the heartless sociopathic son of a bitch we're used to seeing. "Who cares?" We care about that gem of a line.

I thought that was a rather good line for him too. Wonder where they're going with him... he seems to want to be good but still winds up doing evil. Are they going to redeem him, or have him cross the moral event horizon?

3) Something to consider: the situation on the plane was supposed to parallel, as best as possible, the situation on Oceanic 815. This means the door is wide open for Kate to be pregnant.

That's got some shark-jumping potential, though, so hopefully if they go there they write it very carefully.

4) Who, exactly, is on the Island now? Did the whole plane go, even though there didn't seem to be a crash? Was it only people who had already been to the Island? Actually, based on the preview for next week, we can probably discount that theory. But still, was it the whole plane, or just those who were (arbitrarily) supposed to go to the Island?

Based on the preview for next week, we're not gonna see much island action because it'll mostly be about Locke. So that particular question might have to wait two weeks to get answered. Although that federal marshal or whatever that was with Sayid was in the preview if I recall, so she might have gone to the island (can't remember what the scenery looked like behind her, and considering the show it's entirely possible she pops up in Locke's off-island storyline).

5) Are Jack et al. now hopping with Jin et al., or are they fixed in Dharma times while Jin et al. hop? Actually, for that matter, have the flashes stopped now that Locke moved the Island? Or, alternatively, did they stop when Jack et al. arrived? This will, I think, quickly become apparent next week, but it's fun to discuss now. My vote is that Locke did fix the flashes when he jumped, but Jack had to return for some other reason (perhaps to save Jin et al. from the "Purge"?).

Interesting theory, and it makes sense seeing as how Jin was wearing a Dharma uniform. But if they can't stop the big things from happening, then how are they going to stop the Purge? That was Ben's start of darkness, so it's a pretty major thing to try and change.

6) Back to Ben for a second. He sure as hell better not be bloody because he killed Penelope. If they kill off the Desmond storyline, I'll be mega-pissed.

His arm was in a sling too, so whatever happened someone beat the fuck out of him. I've not seen Penny fight, but she doesn't seem like the kind of girl to go around inflicting that kind of damage... maybe it was someone else Ben went after. Although if he did kill Penny that answers the question about the moral event horizon I posed above... by killing Penny instead of Widmore, and orphaning Penny's baby, he will have made himself irredeemable.

7) Now Hurley. This is sheer speculation, but doesn't it seem likely that one of his dead friends (Libby or Charlie seem the most likely candidates) is responsible for him being on the plane?

Yeah, that does seem like the best theory to go with at this point. Wonder why Sayid's under arrest, though?

-Ben was reading James Joyce's Ulysses on the plane. Due to the obvious parallels between Desmond and Odysseus, that occurrence makes me believe more strongly that Ben was trying to kill Penelope when he called Jack. Also, Ulysses deals with fractured timelines and constantly shifting vantage points--kind of like Lost this season so far, no?

Yeah, kind of like Lost every season actually. For the first four seasons there was a different character focused on each episode (shifting vantage point), and there were always flashbacks and/or flash-forwards (fractured timeline). Still, it is more obvious they're going for that this year.

-Yet another C.S. Lewis reference is found in the name of the pendulum, the Lamppost, which is the landmark that points from the wardrobe to the rest of Narnia--or, seen from the other direction as it is at the end of The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe, the way from Narnia back to the "real world." Time will tell which role the Lamppost serves in Lost: whether the Island becomes the "real world" or not.

I would imagine that the island, due to its unusual properties, represents Narnia rather than the real world.

10) Speaking of the Incident: I think Faraday, Jin, Sawyer, and now Locke (?) are going to have a rather integral role in the construction of at least some of the stations (e.g. the Hatch & the Orchid), since they know exactly how they are supposed to be. They will not appear in any of the instructional videos for obvious paradox avoidance reasons. It's funny--they're going to take actions in the past in order to make their future selves go to the past to take those actions.

If that's true, it's a rather mean-spirited thing to do to those characters... there's a strong possibility of an endless time loop in that scenario.

...I think I just blew my own mind.

Did you spit, or swallow?

[AnimaStone]

Feb 19, 2009 12:42:57 GMT -5 piñata said:

Based on the preview for next week, we're not gonna see much island action because it'll mostly be about Locke. So that particular question might have to wait two weeks to get answered. Although that federal marshal or whatever that was with Sayid was in the preview if I recall, so she might have gone to the island (can't remember what the scenery looked like behind her, and considering the show it's entirely possible she pops up in Locke's off-island storyline).

Yeah, I was basing the idea that other people end up on the Island on the fact that the Marshall was on the Island with Locke, and he was saying, "I remember dying," which would seem to require him having died.

Interesting theory, and it makes sense seeing as how Jin was wearing a Dharma uniform. But if they can't stop the big things from happening, then how are they going to stop the Purge? That was Ben's start of darkness, so it's a pretty major thing to try and change.

I was thinking less that they would stop the Purge and more that they would get Jin et al. the hell off the Island before the Purge happens. The rest of Dharma has to die, I'd agree: that does seem rather major.

Yeah, that does seem like the best theory to go with at this point. Wonder why Sayid's under arrest, though?

Don't know. But my money is on Ben somehow being responsible for Sayid's arrest.

I would imagine that the island, due to its unusual properties, represents Narnia rather than the real world.

You'd think so; and yet, the fact that Jack, Desmond, and so many other people have to return to it, and that they are taking the only actions that seem to actually matter on it, it could also be the real world.

Did you spit, or swallow?

Yes.

[piñata]

Feb 19, 2009 18:53:18 GMT -5 AnimaStone said:

Yeah, I was basing the idea that other people end up on the Island on the fact that the Marshall was on the Island with Locke, and he was saying, "I remember dying," which would seem to require him having died.

Ah. You have a much better memory than I do.

Don't know. But my money is on Ben somehow being responsible for Sayid's arrest.

Does sound kinda like Ben. Wonder if Sayid's gonna put the beatdown on him for that?

You'd think so; and yet, the fact that Jack, Desmond, and so many other people have to return to it, and that they are taking the only actions that seem to actually matter on it, it could also be the real world.

Good point. Desmond wasn't on the plane, was he? He'll have to find another way to get back I guess.

It occurs to me that Lost owes a lot more of its inspiration to the book I'm currently reading (Stephen King's It) than we probably realize. Think about it:

Much like the cosmic horror in It, Smokey can take on the appearance and/or voice of basically whoever (or, presumably, whatever) he wants. In fact, the black smoke may not be Smokey's true form, just the scariest form that someone can look at without going completely insane.

The Oceanic Six. After one of the seven main characters of It committed suicide, there were only six people left to stop the monster impersonating Pennywise the clown. All but one of the six remaining characters in It can be easily corresponded to a character on Lost:

Jack = Bill Denbrough, the designated leader.

Kate = Beverly Marsh, the action girl who all the male characters want.

Faraday = Eddie Kaspbrak, the anemic, asthmatic guy, without the asthma (Faraday is rather thin and physically unremarkable, though).

Hurley = Ben Hanscom, the fat kid, in reverse (Ben got thin as an adult... if I remember right from Hurley's flashbacks, he was thin as a kid).

Locke, though he's not a member of the Oceanic Six, = Mike Hanlon. Of the members of the Loser's Club, Mike was the only one who never lost faith that the first campaign against the monster actually happened, and was the one who brought the surviving adult members of the Loser's Club back to Derry to defeat the monster once and for all as adults.

Of course, another theory -- and consider that Damon Lindelof is supposedly a HUGE Star Wars fan -- is that the island was inspired by Zonama Sekot.

[AnimaStone]

Interesting stuff. That comment about It is something I never would have come up with, since I haven't read the book. Definitely follow that, if more similarities pop up. And you can never count out Star Wars...

...though the idea of a sentient planet is akin to another theory my dad ran across: wormholes. Apparently, those "in the know" have thought the Island might be connected to a wormhole since about season 2. I forget exactly when, but Dr. Marvin Candle of Dharma mentioned the "Casimir Effect," and he definitely referred to the substance in the Orchid as "exotic matter." According to Wikipedia, both of those are closely linked to wormhole theory. There are two prevailing wormhole theories:
1) The Island is connected to end A of the wormhole. The Orchid causes end B to move. You can no longer get to the Island from where you used to be able to get to it from. The Island has not moved, but it seems to have moved since it must be found from a different place.
2) The Island is situated at end A of the wormhole. The Orchid moves it through the wormhole to end B. The Island has moved in space-time and can no longer be found, excepting cases of serious pixie magic.

Just food for thought. I'll see if I have anything else up my sleeve--preferably something I actually thought of--before Wednesday.

[piñata]

Feb 23, 2009 22:56:35 GMT -5 AnimaStone said:

Interesting stuff. That comment about It is something I never would have come up with, since I haven't read the book. Definitely follow that, if more similarities pop up.

I'll let you know if I spot anything, but if you like Stephen King at all you should read that book. It's a doorstopper, but so far well worth the time (I've got about 200 pages, out of 1138, left).

...though the idea of a sentient planet is akin to another theory my dad ran across: wormholes. Apparently, those "in the know" have thought the Island might be connected to a wormhole since about season 2.

Actually, I never thought of that, but wormholes make sense considering the focus of the show on space/time.

Just food for thought.

Good thing. My brain had the munchies.

I'll see if I have anything else up my sleeve--preferably something I actually thought of--before Wednesday.

He says on Tuesday. Good luck with that.

[AnimaStone]

Just a quick one today.

1) Wow. They really are explaining stuff now.
2) I feel for you, Faraday. Hang in there! Don't become that creepy old man!
3) Though his line, "What's happened has always happened," was particularly poignant. And depressing.
4) That statue was a big-ass mofo. It looked huge, and it was still quite some distance away. Which brings up the idea of the Egyptians again: is the Island the factual basis of the myth of Atlantis (Greek, I know, but it's the internet so I'm allowed to retcon)? Just a thought.
5) It was rewarding to hear that Sawyer's first (and therefore identifying) words as LeFleur were "Son of a bitch!"
6) I guess Faraday in the Dharma outfit in the season opener is now explained.
7) Juliet and Sawyer? Aww.
8) Sawyer and Kate? Aw fuck. This is heartstring-tugging material.
9) Irony much? They do with their endings.

Overall, good show. I'll try to get more than a gut reaction some time soon. We still have to discuss the Locke episode, I haven't forgotten.